Thank you Chris for your article on ( Where do we go from here) as chairman of Melksham Electronic Organ Club I am very worried by the state of affairs of the organ world.
So much so myself and the committee are trying anything within reason to help the club.
I have already been on the radio talking to Chris Warburton on radio wiltshire
My husband and I drive around with flyers for our next concert in the car windows.We give out free tickets to try and get more people interested, any other Ideals would be appreciated.
All we need is more support from local people.
Thank you Chris for bringing this to the attention of the clubs
OrganFax Community » General Discussions
where do we go from here
(52 posts)-
Posted 1 year ago #
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Hello Melksham
I'm a pro keyboard player living in Wootton Bassett - not a million miles - I'd be happy to come along and entertain you all at minimal cost.
I broadcast weekly keyboard playing on swindon 105.5fm on a monday afternoon from 2.00pm to 3.00pm - you can pick me up on the internet through www.swindon1055.com
My music ranges from the 40's through to the 80's...
Roger M
www.keyboardplayerextraordinaire.co.ukPosted 1 year ago # -
I dont know about the electronic organ club scene but speaking in relation to the theatre organ societies in the UK, this is an area I have been raising for many years but am speaking to deaf ears - or denial???
I have a reputation for being outspoken so why change the habits of a lifetime!!! However, I have always tried to tell things as to exactly how I feel whether good or bad in the hope it will result in improvements. Here goes:
For me personally, an organ society is supposed to STRENGTHEN your interest in the theatre pipe organ. However, for me it did the exact opposite. Since I was 15 (14 years ago) I have dealt with almost every theatre organ society in the UK and im afraid to say I find most of them to be rude, unwelcoming and cliquey. They are more than happy to have your money off you but it seems if you want to get further involved it's a case of "if your face fits" type of attitude.
Im not going to name societies on here but one society always put in it's journals how they were "desperate" for younger volunteers. So being young (well 26!) I asked and was told "we're okay". Why then did they say one minute they were desperate and then we are okay? It doesnt make sense!!!!
As a result of this I have now all but turned my back on the theatre organ but after backing from the church have had my confidence boosted and have been giving theatre organ style recitals on church organs all over the UK for the past 3 years.
Im not the only one that feels this way. A few years ago an ex cinema organist went along to an organ society "diy" night and vowed he and his wife would never go back again after such a rude and disgusting reception - sadly this is something I know about only to well!!!!
I have in the past approached some of these societies and gave them my views and told them where I felt they were going wrong. The result was either a complete denial, refusal to listen and sadly told basically not to come back.
Only yesterday I had an email from a 16 year old and this is what he had to say:
Hiya Chris :)
I'm glad its just not me 2!!
its aboustley stupid....mine was with the ***** organ society, they talk about wanting to save the organ yet they dont let anyone touch it!
there's this stupid old bloke called ******* and he thinks the console is his baby and he cant go 10cm away from it if anyone is next to it and he doesnt like blackpool style!
you have to play his style of music if you go on it.....if you put some good stops down and have some nice pistons he'll come over and be all like 'YOU MUST LEARN YOUR PISTONS AND YOUR STOPS IF YOUR GOING TO PLAY THE CINEMA CLUB STLYE' then changes them whille your playing.
If you've seen my video of me on the wurlitzer?
that was 2 years ago now and everytime i've tried to go back they have not let me because of some reason or other....in that video you'll see they dont go off the stage and there right next to me talking about me right next to me! its horrible atmosphere....i didnt get to play how i wanted ethier i really wanted to bash out some good showtunes etc, but just didnt feel compftable.
i've only played an organ *wurlizter* Twice! and that was my second time, ever since i've wanted to go back they ethier say 'its out of tune' or i can come but cant play it and have to watch them matience service it.
and they now go in on a wednesday morning every 3 weeks to sort it out and thats rubbish because i'm at school then! (will be at college soon)
it really does anoy me and there's nothing i can do about it......and just the way they are with me and talk to me like i'm nothing.
Where as i want to play 'if my friends could see me now' sort of style. With Glock and xylophone and Trems and vibrato sort of stops, ******* wants to play Funeral music with a sing flute stop down and no trems or anything. He should get on a church organ not theatre organ!!
i'll take it you've seen that video....well the old guy with his hair all Greesed back with butter is *******! the one with the hunchback, and the guy with the white hair and glasses is just as bad. they talk about wanting to save the wurlitzer but dont actually LET anyone save it!
and people like Chris Powel are really nice about it all, most organists are.
What experiences have you had?Mine really anoyed me and still does when i think about it...which is why i ranted on!
I hope one day i get another go (soon) beacuse it's been 2 years! i've improved so much.
I'd love to blow that ******* away, of course i go to a few of the concerts there so its not been 2 years since i've been there, but since i've been on that stage and anywhere near it! its horrible watching the concerts beacuse i just want to get up and play! it really enties me but i cant. i even suggested, after the concerts WHY NOT stay back for an extra half an hour and let me have a go that way they cant complain about having to get it out and set it up etc, and he says it will wear it out if we do that and he has to get to 'meetings' after the concerts and then one week he has to leave to go and pick up his brother (when he doesnt even have one! haha) and then one week the hall is going to be used for something after it etc.
it just keeps on like this so now i think why bother!
although i really want to save the wurlitzer....JUST THEY DONT LET US!Thanks :)
*****To add to this this person will probably focus on the piano and like me put the theatre organ down to a bad experience. So another young person and their enthusiasm driven away.
Obviously, for the confidentiality of this person and the society, I have replaced any names with ******* but it gives an idea of what is unfortunately commonplace in the British theatre organ society scene.
Some of the organ societies have done a super job on their instrument(s) concerned - really first class. However, the same cant be said about their people skills - the two go hand in hand in this business!
In contrast however, I would like to offer my thanks to Larry Mcguire and STOPS at Greenlaw who in my opinion are the near as perfect to an organ society as you can get. They are welcoming, include you and really do encourage you! The NETOA at Howden-le-Wear are also very welcoming.
The organ societies are simply not in touch with younger people of today.
The next 20-30 years are going to be VERY interesting indeed for the British organ scene. However, with things as they are I am very doubtful as to whether most of these clubs and societies are going to be around albeit in a very reduced form. However, as harsh as this may sound, it's what they deserve if they are going to have this attitude.
Christopher Thompson.
Posted 1 year ago # -
There seems to be a continuing thread here, I too was less than welcomed as a novice interested in the theatre organ, (although my location played a great hindering part in that) With keen church interest we were able to buy an Allen and plant it in a church, so I kept up the pressure with rehearsals and some 70 concerts later it's been a good thing for me. Others have not been so fortunate. I created a small interest in the theatre organ from scratch and get 60-80 for a concert in a church that is less than flourishing in numbers on a sunday of around 20.
My advice for youngsters is not to take no for an answer, it's not just organs, people doing their hobby anywhere are protective of it. If you are keen without being a nussiance then the chances are that you will get a little encouragement.
One of the best ways is to proove you can be practicle as well as aspiring to play. Understanding the workings of the organ is a good way. The real trouble with the organ is it's a solo ladder to climb and the more soloists there are the bigger the que...I too play more for churches, recently I am combining the church organ concert with some music on the Roland AT100 which will fit in the car and give me the chance to offer a little extra than the pallette of the pipes.
As we lived in Devon the shear distance was the real killer, there were no noteable installations within a 120 mile round trip. I came up with the only alternative, a big investment!
As for numbers declining, it is going to happen. But when the production is good it can really appeal.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Hi,
Whilst Christopher Thompson and I have rarely seen 'eye to eye' in recent years (!!) this is something that I must agree on.
Our organs have always been available (we're not a society) for people to 'have a go on' or use for practice, as I am sure Chris recalls. He has played three of our instruments as far as I can remember.
Sometimes, it may not be convenient to get at some theatre organs (those in Public venues with other uses) for a genuine reason, but it does appear that some societies may be a little over-protective of their instruments and continual excuses keep flowing!
I have heard the excuse that theatre organs will 'wear out' if they are played too much, but in reality, they deteriorate far more quickly by not being played!
I have been very fortunate to be able to practice on theatre organs as and when I want to (I have the keys to two!). I'm now 28, so am no longer one of the 'younger/youngest' organ enthusiasts, but I can see all too clearly where Chris is coming from because it has happened to me.
We look after several theatre organs and, obviously, some are easier to get at than others, it just depends what is on when we/anyone wants to have a practice session or need to do work on them. Two of our venues are very difficult to get into and we have to book what little time they can allow to work on the organs. It's not always a case of go in, switch on and play away for the next five hours! Sometimes, it's not just possible!
However, arrangements CAN be made for access for younger organists, and indeed, anyone in order to keep what we treasure alive. As above, it depends on a lot of factors, convenience for all concerned etc etc.
I look forward to reading any more input!
Regards,
Cameron.
Posted 1 year ago # -
This is indeed true - I did have the pleasure of playing the Wolverhampton/Cannock instruments and I was made to feel very welcome. The only thing that was a problem then was that I lacked confidence. However, I didnt include Wolverhampton in my original discussion as Cameron said, they are not a society - thank God!!!
Burton upon Trent is also not a society and you get a nice welcome and the organ what I think is a reasonable fee for the hour. Unfortunately, there are not to many set ups like Wolverhampton and Burton and in order to get to the organ concerned to play or just volunteer is not an easy task.
It makes sense about Marks comment about being practical as well but again put a society into the equation and things get complicated. One society in particular constantly begs how they need more volunteers etc otherwise they will fold but yet when I have offered (and 2 other people I know also did) we get told "we're okay". I can only assume that our faces simply dont fit. This particular group I find very cliquey and this is going to be one of the biggest killers of the theatre organ! Also, we were handed application forms asking for lengthy information!!!!!! You would think we were applying for a £40,000 a year post and not a voluntary role.
At one point I thought it was just me but as time has gone on over the last 4 years I have had emails from MANY people all saying they could understand how I felt etc. For some reason I have had a lot of emails in since Christmas - all from the same area as well!!! I am not going to name the area, the people or the society but it is very concerning.
Since setting up my yahoo discussion site on concerns in the organ world I have become something of an agony uncle in the organ world!!! Still, proves that this role (unfortunately) was clearly needed!!!
These are comments I have said time and time again but nothing is going to change.
The only positive is that WHEN the societies fold in 30-40 years time I (and many others im sure) might be able to get my hands on an organ at a rock bottom price!!!!!!!!!! :-)
Chris.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Hi all,
My initial article was aimed mainly at the business of 'getting bums on seats', but I can see from Chris' and Cameron's posts that there are also many issues concerning the matter of 'getting' folk interested in the playing side of things and not only the listening.....
I was lucky enough (while living in Burnley, Lancs) to have my dad drive me down to Manchester to spend 2/3 hours on a Saturday morning every few weeks on the wonderful Free Trade Hall Wurlitzer (now Stockport Town hall). You simply paid the security staff there and then had the whole theatre and organ all to yourself - what a buzz! Now based in the Midlands, I'm pleased to see that the local town of Burton On Trent offers a similar thing (organ experience) with the slightly smaller (although still very good) Wurly in the Town Hall there. Phone 01283 508000 and ask for Lynne Allman and she'll put you right. Blackpool Tower offers a slightly different deal where £250 (I think) will buy you an hour's worth of demonstration/playing/insight and recording of your 'having a go' on the Tower Wurlitzer. Phil Kelsall tells me that the funds raised from this have gone a long way to paying for the continuous upkeep on the organ - such as the current refurbishment of one full chamber of pipes, rather than having to secure budget through the company for such work. To be fair, I can fully understand why many venues are not able to open up their instruments for private practice as many are places where the day to day operation/insurance issues etc, etc simply do not allow for private access. It took me to go 'on the books' as a team member at Blackpool Tower to ever even 'have a go'.....
It is not my place to get involved in the 'politics' of clubs/societies etc, but I do hear an awful amount of 'chatter' when going around both the UK and abroad, and the issue of making folk welcome - both for would-be players and also prospective patrons at concerts is raised all too often. Marie and I host between 20 and 25 concerts a year ourselves and one can learn a great deal when fortunate enough to sit on both the 'playing' side of the fence and also the 'engaging one'. We promoted Phil Kelsall's concert at Burton Yesterday and were delighted to see 250 odd happy listeners go home from a super show which was made all the more complete from wonderful professional lighting, camera, screen and most importantly - some pretty serious advertising done in the area to make folk aware of the show.
Personally, I'm in a funny predicament as a player since I guess to be fair, that 2/3 of my workload is now in the electronic side of things (or 'appliances' as some American pipe organists have called them!!), whilst I'm also known by many as a 'theatre organist' - much of that stems from the former Blackpool connection. On the electronic side of things, I am fortunate enough to have performed for all but about 2 of the various societies/clubs around the UK and am absolutely humbled to be asked back on such a regular basis by so many. On the other side of the fence, I know only too well as to the 'pipe' venues/promoters who (how can I put this tactfully??) wouldn't be rushing to offer a booking. As I said above, it is not my place to get involved with politics - Organfax was and is an apolitical site and always will be, but there are some strong ideas and views out there as to what's right and what's wrong and it is often very easy to become 'judged' and even pushed out......
My advice to any youngsters is to 'stick with it'. My music teacher at High School advised my parents to steer me well away from a career in music as I was a 'bright lad' and all that....! needless to say, I never took his advice and can only reiterate what's said above - 'follow your heart' and do what you love best!
Please keep the discussion going - this is indeed a 'think tank' and a good place for getting our heads together.
Cheers for now,
Chris
Posted 1 year ago # -
Thanks Chris - I fully appreciate your position!
Getting to play instruments thankfully isnt a big problem it once was. Southampton, Stockport (both Plaza and the town hall), Burton, Howden-le-wear, Cannock and Wolverhampton (as Cameron mentioned previously) are all available which is excellent. Obviously though for some these venues are not convenient to get to.
My other big issue with the theatre/cinema organ world is the fact a lot of people have emailed me (since I have been regarded as an agony uncle!!) stating that they went along to a concert etc with a view to getting further involved but felt very unwelcome etc. One person who wrote to me, my heart really went out to and seeing your discussion "where do we go" prompted me to comment on this very important topic - something I said I wouldnt do again.
I myself was very enthusiastic several years ago and really wanted to get involved with my local society and do something I was passionate about. Sadly, I felt unwelcome from the very beginning and there was that strong feeling "I dont fit in here" etc. As a result I am no longer involved with theatre organ affairs and vowed myself I would never enter discussion about it again. To be very truthful the organ societies (more than one im afraid) diminished my interest rather than enhance it as well as destroy my confidence.
Thankfully though with the help of the church I have developed myself and now do recitals regularly all over the UK on church organs and I have forged lifelong friendships with some of the most friendly and welcoming people there is at churches in places like Sevenoaks, Donington, Bath, Penzance and Hemel Hempstead. It's great that often we will email each other to wish each other Happy Birthday, Merry Christmas or just ask how life is treating the other. I could never see myself having this kind of friendship with the officials of most of the theatre organ societies im sorry to say. My organ life really is now as near perfect as you can get! I really have never been happier!!!
My only wish would be to have a church organ with a melotone!!!! However, that will hopefully be a realism before long as having been left a generous sum of money I am planning to build at home a 2 manual straight organ with drawstop console using Makin samples but have real wind blown pipes for the Diapason 8, 4 and 2. However, im planning a melotone section using a redundant electrone generator providing solo voices on the Swell and a Clarinet and Vibraphone on the Great. My plan was for something a bit more ambitious but I brought a BMW (having finally passed 18 months ago) so have had to cut back in other things!!!!!
Chris Thompson.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Re: "Where Do We Go From Here" - the state of the organ world, I speak as Secretary of Blackpool Keyboard Club - although this is our 33rd year, we have remained a small, but friendly club. We don't always have "top" artistes but like to encourage new names to the circuit, and I and my colleagues like to think that our friendly atmosphere is extended to the visiting organist.
I also perform very occasionally at various organ societies and churches - electronic organ and pipe organ - and accept perhaps 6 - 10 concerts a year fitting around a VERY busy teaching week.
Forgive me for speaking only as one of the "minor bit players" but I relate an experience during the last 12 months when asked to play for a group of people (no names, no location) and as usual arrived in good time to set up the organ. When the committee arrived, not one person made a move to come and speak to me, no-one enquired about the journey, no one said they were pleased to meet me, the chairman opened the meeting by waffling on about previous concerts and then announced my name so suddenly, I hadn't realised I had been called. There was abrupt thanks at the end of the 1st half, during the interval no-one offered refreshments - at least some audience members came to express their pleasure at the show so far. Someone (don't know who) came and asked me what my last item would be and if I had an encore. I gave them that info and - yes - I had an encore planned.
Another curt intro to the second half by the chairman. Last item was played, chairman came on nodded thanks in my direction and announced the next meeting, thank you and goodnight...........THEN CAME AND ASKED ME IF I WOULD PLEASE PLAY FOR THEM IN THE SAME MONTH THE FOLLOWING YEAR.
May I ask politely without being shot down in flames as a prima donna - WHO has to get their act together here???
Thankfully by contrast, most such groups are more than welcoming, but there might be a few who should look to their console-side manners.Posted 1 year ago # -
Hmmmm.... I think I just might know which society you mean.
In answer to your question who has to get their act together - it's obvious! The society are the ones that need a kick up the jacksy - along with plenty of others!!!
The biggest destroyer of the organ is some of the societies. I have said it time and time again and maintain that thought. They drove me away and now I know I am just one of a very big handful - a handful that seems to get bigger as time goes by.
I reckon with all the emails I have had from dissatisfied and sometimes very hurt people, there is enough to start a very stable society with just us lot alone! I only wish I could.
Anyway, keep up the good work Stephen!
Chris.
Posted 1 year ago #
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