I have the t.o.i.a.b. and the Roland Fantom XR connected to my Technics G 100 Organ but I cannot get the expression pedal to control the sound output from the Fantom...can anyone offer any help please
thanks Glyn.
OrganFax Community » Electronic Instruments
"Theatre Organ In A Box"
(487 posts)-
Posted 2 years ago #
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Hi Glyn,
There are one or two of us trying to get to the bottom of a similar problem with the Roland and Technics Organs at the moment. It's sort of a "work in progress" just now, but I'll report back as soon as I get any positive info that may help you.
Regards,
Nicola
Posted 2 years ago # -
Hi Nicola
Thanks for the prompt reply .I shall watch this space....as they say.. many thanks
Glyn
Posted 2 years ago # -
ive only come across one instrument that seems to control the expression volume of the fantom xr .. and thats the ORLA GT organs .. theres probably more.. i got a yamaha HX1 to use with mine and at 1st i had it set up so the fantom output was going to something on the back of the organ called EXP in (a modification that done well before i got it) and then from the line out on HX1 to external speakers .. this worked fine..i then had expression on all channels from the fantom . id already ordered the midi solutions box . so when that arrived i used that instead not only can i get the expression volume but using sysex messages from the organ and programming the box i can call up any performance even put crash symbols on my left or right footswitch by matching the sysex messages from the organ to the ones on the fantom.. its a powerful midi tool as those that have it will agree.
i also downloaded something called midi monitor which is free online then use a midi to usb cable (this has nothing to do with the midi solution box ) link one to your organ and the usb to pc .open the midi monitor and then play notes press, buttons on the organ ..midi monitor it will display what channel is being used.. i.e if i play a bass pedal ch 3 will show on screen touch the expression pedal ch 11 will dispaly .. then if i hit any voice button on the organ i will get a sysex message number like this F0 43 70 70 40 XX 00 F7 .. by programming than sysex number on the box i can tell it to do anything on the fantom . crash symbal /performance change etc..
this is great litlle program for ppl who dont know whats coming out of the organ on what channels and lets you know what midi messages are being sent out.. my advice would be .. if you own the fantom then get a midi box .. you`ll have much more control over the fantom .. hope this helps in someway .. any advice id be glad to help. Tony..
Posted 2 years ago # -
ive just gone back and read a few posts and just to point out that when i say controls the volume of the fantom xr i mean the actual fantom itself .. the first organ i tried this on was a yamaha HS8 which i sent to the exp in on that (think it was coming out mono though).. if i put headphones directly into the fantom then the volume stayed the same,, however i tried this box on an orla GT3000 and it contolled all 16 channels of the fantom with the expression pedal on the organ .. i think if your using external speakers for the fantom then that box is your only way to go as its controlling the volume of whats going in to the organ speaker not the fantom itself ..
Posted 2 years ago # -
Hi All,
Just thought I'd report back. I have to agree with Tony that it's looking increasingly likely that you are all going to have to resort to using the "Events Processor" box by Midi Solutions.... I mentionioned previously that this was probably the answer if all else fails, and I have to say, I' m running out of options to try. My friend is currently using it on his Atelier and it does the job, although it does seem to cut back a lot of the Fantoms power output. (however,this can be adjusted by increasing the "gain" on the Fantom internally to +6)
I made contact with a very helpful technical Roland guy up here in Scotland, and he gave me some interesting thoughts on what may be the problem. To cut a long story short, I spent yesterday afternoon at my friends' AT 900c and Fantom, and after a lot of trial and error, eventually managed to get the pair of instruments controlling expression on channel 4. However, this is not good news as the Fantom appears to be sending/receiving expression data AND voice data down the SAME midi channel - NOT good. My Roland technical friend says that you should be able to possibly rectify this problem by going into the Matrix Control section of the Fantom, but unfortunately as he doesn't have either the Atelier or the Fantom himself, it's very difficult for him to explore further. I'm going to investigate, but don't hold your breath for a quick answer!
I currently have my Fantom into "Rhythm In" on my EL 90 which gets round the problem (Tony, this is just the equivalent of the HS8 exp in which I had converted to stereo input), but if I plug it in to "Aux In", I'm in the same boat as the rest of you with no expression control. I'm definately going to do a bit more investigating on this Matrix Control, but my patience is running out and I think the "box" might just be the only answer which is unfortunate, as it means people are going to have to fork out more money to get it to work. Grr!!!
Another thing Tony, while you and I are chatting quite happily about system exclusive messages, we have to bear in mind that the other people on this site are perhaps not quite so familiar with midi (sorry if we're confusing things with techno-babble folks), and just wan't an easy solution to their problem :-) I think you may have to guide people on how to program the box to suit their needs. OR, I would suggest people contact Reg Rawlings about the box as his friend Tim Cooper is technically knowledgeable and I think he may able to also program the box to suit everyones needs.
Glyn, do you have Reg's details? I know Stephen has. Keith, I haven't forgotten that you are in New Zealand :-), and may not have Reg's details. I can't find them at the moment, but I'll get back to you with his email address in case you may want to contact him.
On a more positive note - apart from our expression problem, are you all enjoying your respective Fantoms? I suspect, you may be Theatre fans (obviously), but the internal sounds are absolutely excellent with a bit of tweaking here and there. Keith, I believe you may have the most versatile set-up of all, and have you noticed that many of the internal sounds are completly different to the Atelier? - you are spoilt for choice now! Glyn, I don't know too much about the Technics but I'm sure you're having as much pleasure with it as I am..... Tony, I know you got yours back to add to your HX, and since we haven't heard from you for a while, I guessed you were engrossed in doing good things with it. Stephen also, may hopefully get some more feedback from Reg and hopefully we WILL get this sorted one way or another.
Most of you have probably nodded off to sleep after my ramblings, so I'll sign off and perhaps try the Matrix Contol issue later on.
Regards All
Nicola
Posted 2 years ago # -
Hiya nicola.. yes apologies for going on about these sysex messages and i sort of went on to talking about doing other things by controlling the fantom from the organ.. if only all organs sent the same midi channels etc .. unfortunatley this is why its very hard to answer a question relating to a specific model of instrument if you aint got the organ infront of you .. the main thing is though getting the expression control of the fantom via the expression pedal from the organ which was glyn`s question to which i think hopefully sort of gives him some idea of how to get round this..
when i sorted my expression out without using the midi solutions box by going through the exp in on the hx and then out to external speakers i was going to stick with that until i found out what other things i was able to do with this.. im not going to go on about sysex messages again buts thats how i got it call up all 64 user registrations or peformances from the fantom where as before i just had the 16 registarion buttons (pistons) from the yamaha HX 1
i said i would
nt go on about these sysex messages but just a note to say and id be happy to help anyone out in anyway if you do get the midi solutions box if you want to do more than just control the expression volume.. i.e you might only have 8 or 10 buttons to control the performances on the the box so why stop there when you can have all 64 .! im starting to sound like a salesman trying to sell you a product but im more than happy now im getting much more use than just the expression control .. it can be hard work who i think most will agree with midi but once all the hard work is done it pays off ..i just sit down switch the organ, fantom, speakers and play away without having to touch the fantom now which of course is what we all want.i was over in morecambe again at reg
s seminar about 3 weeks back .. although this year it was mainly for tyros 2 and 3 and ketron users .i still went along. i found it hard to leave my fantom behind so i packed that up in its own little suitcase and a friend brought his mid keyboard we stuck headphones and i helped him out with how to make your own registrations from the patches adjusting volumes on the upper lower etc the saturday night was brian sharp playing the t.o.i.a.b who got some excellent sounds coming from it.. i use the rokit 8 monitors plus ive just ordered the rokit 10 sub although some say i dont need a sub some say its best as i could blow the monitors with the bass?? im not 100% sure . so i aint taking any chances. this is regs set up so i know i cant go wrong and ive heard them in action with both reg and brian sharp. at the end of all this i just might learn to play it .!. you can get reg`s contact details here phone numbers etc on his site if this helps glyn.
the address is his business partner dave woodshttp://www.totaltransformation.co.uk/about.html
all the the best . Tony <(•¿•)>
Posted 2 years ago # -
Hi Tony, please don't think I was criticising you in any way for mentioning the Sys Ex stuff - I actually find it very interesting and helpful, and I most definately WILL be picking your brains Re the "events processor" for midi mapping etc. I'm glad you've come back on the site to help. I just thought maybe some of the others might be thinking "Aaaaargh!" when they're perhaps not as obssessed by midi as you and I are, he he! :-)
It's true the box could solve the problem, but until I have total confirmation from Roland that it most definately does NOT work, I'm a bit reluctant to urge people to get the box. I'm probably being pathetic to keep trying ( or maybe just a miserable Scot who hates parting with money), but I'd hate people to purchase the box when perhaps there is a tiny chance it can be sorted out....I am pretty near to giving up though!
Nice to hear you use the Rokit 8's too! I treated myself to these recently and I didn't bother with the sub woofer as I'm also using my JBL Control 5's (behind me to give a surround sound).
Sorry Folks....didn't mean to waffle on there, boring you and getting off the subject
At the end of the day it's a personal choice of whether you say "Ah stuff it, lets get the box now!" to get a fast result...or wait a few days to see if I can get any answers from Roland.... A friend emaied his midi regs to me for the 900c since his Atelier works perfectly with a Yamaha expander...but still no joy fron the Fantom :-(
Tony, I will be back sometime to pick your brains re midi mapping the box, thanks. It's good to hear you seem to be enjoying the Fantom every bit as much as I am!
Regards
Nicola
Posted 2 years ago # -
no probs nicola .. i understand fully what you mean though ,, if someone would have mentioned a sysex message midi message a week back on here i wouldnt have had a clue what they were on about.. i was waiting for the answer for a while and even contacted a guy in technical at roland who was on to it.. reg too was in contact but heard no more so went ahead and got the box..
it is a fair bit to pay for just volume control (3 settings needed or 4 if you have 3 manual) so guess im really saying if the only option is to get the box then make use of the other settings and get your moneys worth.. as much i like the theatre organ sounds i also like orchestral voices and maybe ill have to pick your brains on that , tried a few strings to get some nice sounds however for some reason im getting all touch sensitive even though the organ touch is off. i`ll mess with this another day . not sure if there one setting to turn all touch or velocity off in the fantom or they have to be done individual...you must have a nice set up there nicola with the other 2control JBL speakers. as well as the rokit 8 ..s anyway speak soon
Tony.. :-)
Posted 2 years ago # -
Posted 2 years ago #
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