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1. Phil Sweet
   Member

   I read with interest the article on the "Brand X" organ using Ketron keyboards that is being revealed at Pakefield. There is also the Tyros based TRX system that I believe has been the brainchild of Musicland & Swift Music (Forgive me if I am wrong!). Is there a message out there for the Manufacturers? Why are Ian Griffin and these two music shops having to design and produce these products?

   I have heard that the TRX system has been really popular with both keyboard players, organists and people that used to play organ but gave it up for keyboard but now can enjoy the best of both worlds. I understand there is 3-4 different keyboard configurations available. From the article it appears that the Brand X will have several different configs with the Ketrons too.

   So why are these guys setting these systems up? Obviously there is a desire for them so well done to all involved for identifying the niche in the market.

   The point I am trying to make is, why haven't the manufacturers come up with a "new generation" of organ that people want. What are their marketeers up to? Do they not research the wants and needs of their customers anymore and produce what the customers want and not what they think the customer should have?

   A big round of applause to both the Brand X, TRX systems and their designers.

   I think the big manufacturers have missed the boat on this one.... these systems have now made the delights of organ playing so much more AFFORDABLE and flexible for the amateur player. They can now have the benefit of top quality products and sounds that until now could be only obtained from the manufacturer's flagship organs, but at a fraction of the cost.

   As a keen amateur enthusiast they tick all the right boxes for me. Lets hope this generation of products aids the rejuvenation of Organists of all ages.

   Good Luck with "Brand X" Ian..........I am sure it will be a huge winner.

   Maybe there should be a new name for these products?

   If we combined Keyboard and Organ we get............Keygan?

   (Come on England!) tee hee. (Kevin)

   Phil.

   Posted 2 years ago #

2. NicEL8000
   Member

   HEAR HEAR Phil!!!!!!!! I couldn't agree more with your sentiments above. It's about time some of the organ manufacturers were given a "shake up" to encourage them to listen to what people want......

   My latest gripe is the issue of the £20K Atelier not having touch sensitive base pedals.... so when you add a Roland expander to it (such as the Fantom or anything else for that matter) you are either deafened by the base requiring all the setting to be readjusted, or you have to switch it off. Bad news for my friend when I give him all my registrations for the Fantom which works perfectly with my old Yamaha (GRR!!!!)......... ridiculous!!!!!...... No wonder people are looking at the Tyros TRX and Brand X! GOOD ON THEM for giving people an option. I don't think it's even just a case of being down to money - it's more a case of wanting something with quality sounds AND all the functions and potential that comes with modern keyboards. The fact you can get a set up with the TRX or Brand X or expander combination which has far more potential and features for a fraction of the cost, is an added bonus.

   I am a die hard ORGAN enthusiast..... I make no bones about it, BUT, for the last 12 years I have had a keyboard and/or an expander linked up to my organ..... Why?..... because I can't get what I personally want from a stand alone organ :-(

   I didn't know Ian was putting a Ketron set up together...... now THAT is something I am VERY interested in seeing and hearing :-) Thanks for mentioning that Phil, I DO like the sound of the Ketrons, old or new, it doesn't matter. Every time either Ian, or Pete (Shaw) are up in our neck of the woods, I always have a private "drool" over the sound quality of their Ketrons. Ahh....lovely!

   As to what they should be called - How about "Organs that have all the functions everybody wants and needs" Brand X? BRING IT ON!!!!!!! - and the SOONER the BETTER!!!!!! Yippeeeeee!!!

   Ooooooooh! Nic's on her soapbox and living dangerously tonight.....hee hee!

   Should I prepare my head for the chopping block? Ha Ha!

   Regards,

   Nic

   Posted 2 years ago #

3. Phil Sweet
   Member

   Hi Nic

   I have never been one to use expanders and the such like. Although I have read the threads on the fantom etc with interest. Following on from your above posting, if one spent 20k on an Atelier should you have to add an expander to get it to do what you want it to do?

   Spending that sort of money on these organs and with todays computer operating systems technology surely it is easy enough for the manufacturers to let the consumers tailor their own organs individual specific needs. Then upgrade and update them without the need for usuing expanders on recent models.

   However, I am in the very very lucky situation of having a Mother that lives less than a mile away who is the proud owner of an Atelier AT80SL. All critisism to one side, it is a wonderful organ so I am not just knocking Roland. I do so love losing a few hours on it when I visit her.

   Phil.

   Posted 2 years ago #

4. JLOW
   Member

   Wonder whether keyboard manufacturers are bothered about the 'organ' style of playing. There must be many million of keyboard units sold world-wide which brings with it healthy profits so cannot see they will be interested in a niche market of people who love playing two deckers and pedals. Note that the TRX system and brand X will be using keyboards made by Yamaha and Ketron so here again more unit sales for these major manufacturers.
   Would love an up to date organ but how much new technology is in the current range of Orla & Roland, perhaps little and only upgrading what went before.

   Posted 2 years ago #

5. NicEL8000
   Member

   Hi All,

   I agree with you Phil, the Atelier is a nice organ, and I would say in it's favour, it's one of the easiest, most user friendly organs I have had the pleasure of playing. The sounds are good, the speakers are good, and in theory, you shouldn't have to add an expander on to a 20K organ, but after having played both the organ and the expander and being able to compare the two, unbelievably, I find the Atelier falls short. No offence intended to Atelier owners, but I think for 20K it should at least be giving people the sounds and extra facilities that is in the expander. I had always thought I would end up with an Atelier, but having compared the two, I won't be going down that road, at least not until they get the organ up in line with the expander. Again, it's back to what you were saying about the organ manufacturers taking note..... sadly, I doubt they will :-(

   JLOW - you're right too. I don't think the keyboard manufacturers are too concerned about pleasing the organ players. I just don't see why the organ manufacturers and the keyboard manufacturers can't "share" a lot of the technology. I haven't had any experience with the Orla, but I think you have made a valid point by querying how much has actually been upgraded on the organs in recent years. That got me thinking....... and it does beg the question - are the organs falling behind technology wise? I'm not suggesting they should be carbon copies of the keyboards, but it would be nice if they could give us a bit more choice of the features available on the keyboards.

   In the meantime, I'll just have to stick to what some people would refer to as my "old hat" organ with it's add-on expander on the side, complete with all the mess of midi/audio cables etc, hee hee! I'm hoping to find the time to record something using ONLY the sounds from the Fantom to put on to youtube soon. I think many will be surprised with the sounds that can come from an innocent looking black box...

   Regards all

   Nicola

   Posted 2 years ago #

6. abacus
   Member

   You’re all confusing the 2 items.
   The Organ/Keyboard is designed for home use and/or a One Man Band, and therefore has to be easy to use in the home and live.
   The expander is designed for Pro/Studio Musicians using computer sequencers and controller keyboards, therefore you have to be able to edit and adjust virtually everything.
   If you really want the best sound and flexibility, then all studios use computers and VSTi instruments which are way ahead of the above, in both sound quality and flexibility.
   BTW: Technology wise, Organs always catch up (Or in many cases jump ahead) of keyboards, but due to cost they are not updated so quickly.
   As to features, then most of the ones on keyboards are redundant on Organs and vice a versa, therefore manufactures tailor them to a specific market.
   Regards

   Bill

   Posted 2 years ago #

7. NicEL8000
   Member

   Hi Bill,

   nice to hear your input. I take on board what you are saying, but am I right in thinking you are a "Wersi man"?.... From having seen what Brett can do with his, this gives me the impression that Wersi are possibly further ahead technology wise than perhaps some of the other organ manufacturers? We've already had the "Orla debate" on another thread, and having spoken with Paul Carman, it does appear Orla seems to be listening to what people want and are trying to improve things.

   I agree expanders are designed more for the pro musicians in mind, but just because we are home hobbyists, doesn't mean to say we don't need or want the ability to edit and adjust things to suit ourselves. (you only have to see the Fantom fanatics on the toiab thread to see how much pleasure they are getting from their expander).

   I have heard that a Highly respected Organist in the U.S.A. has been asking a certain organ manufacturer for many different things to be included, but his suggestions seem to fall on deaf ears.... Okay, he's a pro, so maybe his thoughts are automatically dismissed as the manufacturers don't think home owners would want what he's asking for....., but can't they even do a follow up questionnaire for owners to see what people would like (if anything) to be added to their organ in the future?

   Bill, you seem to be pretty up on things technology wise. Can I ask - are you saying that the Wersi or something else has got the capabilities of 16 sounds coming through at once with full extensive voice editing and the ability to put these sounds anywhere on upper, lower or base, plus an extensive on board sequencer with full editing facilities, an on board sampler and also step write/real time write functions for drum programming? I have an idea that the Wersi may do all of the above, while others can't, and I'd be really interested to consider something like that for myself in the future, and I know quite a few others that would be interested too. (Wersi or Orla don't seem to do any promo/demo events North of the border, so I never get the chance to see and try one "in the flesh").

   Thanks in advance for any info you can pass on.

   Regards

   Nic

   p.s. Penny Weedon is playing for us tonight on her new instrument - it will be interesting to hear it and "pick her brains" about it too :-)

   Posted 2 years ago #

8. abacus
   Member

   Hi Nic
   Where to start

   1. The first thing you have to remember about a Wersi OAS instrument, is that it runs on a standard Windows PC (You only notice this at boot up and shut down as the rest is done within the OAS software) and therefore has all the advantages of a PC.

   2. The Abacus up to Verona can Layer up to 3 voices on the upper (Or they can be split across the upper) + the Wersichord, 2 on the lower, (Which can also be split) and 1 on the pedals.
   The Scala and Louvre can layer 4 upper, 3 lower and 2 pedals.

   3. Not all the voices are single sounds; some can have 2 or 3 voices available within them, thus giving multiple voices.

   4. In addition to the internal Wersi format voices, (Factory or User) you can load, play and edit Akai samples and VSTi instruments, using them as if they were a standard internal voice. (This also applies to the external Midi ports)

   5. The voice editing capabilities varies on the voices used. (EG, hammer effect on a Piano, Fret sounds on a guitar etc.)

   6. With many VSTi you can layer (Play simultaneously) as many voices as the on-board computer processing power allows.

   7. Up to OAS 6 the 16 track sequencer did not have massive editing facilities, and so Steinberg’s Cubasis software was installed as standard for those that wanted more advanced editing.
   With OAS 7 Cubasis was dropped as a fully comprehensive sequencer came as standard.

   8. It has a sampler on-board, but is mainly used for recording drum samples or effects. (You can load your own drum sounds if you require)

   Here are some screenshots of OAS 7 (Some come from the German Manual)
   http://www.4shared.com/document/oQKhhYfH/Screenshots.html

   A couple of years after launch a new arranger section became available as an option, (Standard on newer instruments) which could also play Yamaha styles without conversion.
   http://www.4shared.com/document/t-BtQg0O/OAA_Screenshots.html

   Later Still a Rhythm Designer option was also added.
   http://www.4shared.com/document/JcVybVKU/Ryhthm_Designer_Screenshot.html

   Other features have also been added.

   Due to the number of features available, if there is anything specific please ask.

   If you contact Chris Hopkins of the Blackpool Tower, you can get genuine Blackpool Wurlitzer samples to directly load into the Wersi, including 200 Pre-sets.

   Here are some links to VSTi that various Wersi owner’s use
   http://www.native-instruments.com/#/en/products/producer/kontakt-4/
   http://www.toontrack.com/products.asp?item=7
   http://www.garritan.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=154&Itemid=54
   Just Google VST instruments for 100s more including pipes

   Hope this helps

   Bill

   Posted 2 years ago #

9. NicEL8000
   Member

   Hi Bill,

   Many thanks for this info - it's much appreciated. You have just confirmed what I suspected - the Wersi is indeed far more advanced technology wise than the other organ manufacturers. I did have an inkling this was the case, as Wersi seem to be more amenable to giving people the choice of choosing their own boards etc. (something the other manufacturers might take note of). That's Wersi bang up to date with modern technology - but what about the other organ manufacturers?...can they do all of the above?....

   I'll be looking into all these links you've provided with great interest now when I get a minute.

   Thanks again!

   Regards

   Nic

   Posted 2 years ago #

10. JLOW
    Member

    With all these 'mouth watering' examples of what a Wersi can do, hope the new owners of Wersi will be willing to look after current owners of these instruments with upgrades and support.

    Posted 2 years ago #

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