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1. Jennifer K
   Member

   I am very worried at further obstacles that are now being placed in front of artistes and clubs-they are ,in my view,just part of another scam dreamed up by insurance companies,a bit short on revenue because of the current recession!
   They are quite happy to take our premiums,but when it comes to offering a blanket insurance that covers all reasonable claims,they do not want to know!
   Dont misunderstand me-Im all for safety,but this,together with the absolutely ludicrous claim mentality that prevails(it grew up over over the big pond-together with a lot more similar things!) is slowly strangling many endeavours-it`s like some giant ivy growth that is robbing the daylight as is engulfs a house!!
   (Wot an analogy!!?).
   I would like to suggest that all organ societies and clubs band together and offer their own insurance cover to artistes and venues-that would show them that we mean business,and are not happy to just roll over and have our tummies tickled!!
   These advertisements on the telethat offerfree servicesare obscenely misleading-someone has to pay for these massive claims-and its us,the caring citizens,in higher premiums!
   That is not in any way meant to diminish those who have genuine claims,but inciting people to make scurillous claims is costing everyone dearly!
   Im sorry if I appear a bit radical,but thats how I feel about many issues of contemporary life(if ever I got in a position of power,people would be heard to
   grumble,"PLEASE bring back Margaret Thatcher-she was a pussycat, compared to that Jennifer Kersey!!?"
   Thats all,m`lud-I rest ma case!!"

   Jennifer Kersey(miss)

   Posted 2 years ago #

2. RMepstead
   Member

   Don't worry Jennifer - it's not till the end of October...!!!

   Posted 2 years ago #

3. NicEL8000
   Member

   Hear! Hear!, Jennifer.

   I couldn't agree more with every word you said. Sadly, this sort of mentality does seem to be everywhere we turn these days. Where is it all going to end? Don't know what the answer is........
   If you're comparing yourself tongue in cheek to Margaret Thatcher, I could happily be your "chief sidekick" or 2nd in command!!!

   Nicola

   Posted 2 years ago #

4. Jennifer K
   Member

   Thanks for your positive comments,Nicola-I will bear that in mind if the populace of this once great country ever elect me into a position(I`m happy in any position!?)of power!?
   This erosion,unfortunately, prevails in all areas-some are quite happy to accept it-I will never let the standards I have had instilled in me, by my parents,slip.
   Double negatives,Americanisms(I absolutely hate that word guy-it is used by many for people of both sexes-just let anyone dare to address me thus-
   a guy is something we here,in UK,put on a bonfire on November 5th)!)
   Australianism-Ah,the list is endless.
   So,PATs is not coming into force until October-well,Ive got to say that that gives me a lot of encouragement(I dont think!)
   It is going to create mayhem-similarly,some form of music decibel limitation was tried in clubs a few years ago,but it never took off-I remember a lead singer of a band just wishing to welcome his guests on an evening performance,"good.............." is all he got out-and the unit switched off all the equipment and the microphones.
   Besides being very dangerous( potential equipment damage) to switch off the mains to equipment in this way,this limitor had been turned up(in the bar area)to respond to even a mimimal amount of noise!
   It has,now thankfully,been abandoned-a light on in the ceiling of the venue used to initially be green,then change to yellow(or orange)to warn the artiste that the volume was excessive,and eventually to red,and if it continued in this colour for a few seconds,it eventually switched everything off and any dancers were left in animated suspension.
   It would then take a few minutes to get everything on line again-and so it went on,all evening!
   I used to pity anyone(readers) who had to try to look at the ceiling whilst trying to concentrate on the dots in front of them!
   Now,the other side of this is that it seems to be the vogue, currently, to play extremely loud-some equate loudness with talent,when,they are two completely different issues!
   Am I turning into a grumpy old woman?
Ah,the musings of an elderley dame!?
   Jennifer Kersey(young at heart!)

   Posted 2 years ago #

5. NicEL8000
   Member

   Ha! I actually laughed out loud reading your story about the green, orange and red lights, Jennifer... absolutely priceless!
   Seriously though, this PAT testing does irk me, as I imagine it does many others too. What I can't grasp is this :- Has this been introduced to tighten up on safety measures? What is the actual purpose?..............

   In my view, the PAT testing is no better than an MOT certificate for a car.
   The MOT cetificate DOES make the car legal for 1year, but it DOES NOT guarantee the drivers safety for 1year. Steering, brakes, suspension, exhaust emissions are all thoroughly checked and tested, and the MOT certificate states that the car is fit to be driven on the public highways AT THE POINT IN TIME IT WAS TESTED. Unfortunately, it doesn't guarantee for example, against the cars' injector pump packing up whilst driving back home along the motorway at 70mph, causing cars to crash domino fashion,and even potential loss of life. What good is the MOT certificate THEN???!!!!!!
   I could go on and on....but better not......I'm going to think about nice pleasant things to get me out of "rant mode"!!

   Regards,

   Nicola (grumpy 41years old)

   Posted 2 years ago #

6. phil
   Member

   Hi Jennifer and Nicole.
   You both make very good points on this subject.

   We have PAT testing done practically every year. I bought an inspection lamp from B&Q that sits on a workbench and the PAT test failed it because it didn’t have an earth. This lamp was deemed fit for public use and passed all the European standards.
   I had a microwave oven in the staff room that passed the PAT test yet it blew up the day after.

   Is anyone qualified to answer this question? Why can’t we just simply use circuit breakers?

   Phil.

   (Young at heart, grumpy 47 year old)

   Posted 2 years ago #

7. abacus
   Member

   Most folks on this forum would pop to the garage if their car started making funny noises or looked dangerous, and the same applies for electrical appliances, however I was an electrician for 30 years, and seeing the state of a lot of the electrical tools in use, (Before PAT testing was introduced) you would all Poo your Pants when you saw the state of some of them, and this is what a yearly MOT is all about. (The same applies to cars, as if a lot of folks could get away with not keeping them maintained and safe (Bald tyres, Worn Brakes etc) they would)
   As to an inspection lamp from B&Q not having an earth, most these days are plastic and double insulated, so don’t need one. (They will have a square within a square symbol)
   RCDs and Circuit Breakers can help, but (For example) if the earth became detached from a metal appliance, and the live cable touched the metalwork, then no RCD or Circuit Breaker would recognise this fault until someone touched it, and they became the earth. (They operate quick, (milliseconds) but you would still get one hell of a belt before they did)
   Hope this answers your questions
   Regards

   Bill

   Posted 2 years ago #

8. NicEL8000
   Member

   Both of you make good points there. I do think also that it might help sort out the "cowboys" from the good ones. I also think Bill makes an excellent point about loose earth wires. This is my point exactly.....

   Unlike you, Bill I have no experience in electrics, but I do know the importance of how the electrical current will take the easiest, quickest route to earth via the easiest conductor (even if it is a human), so, with your experience, how can we prevent this happening? After all, there is a whole host of electrical components that can come loose (maybe only fractionally, but enough to do damage), and the equipment could even have been PAT tested the day before, but that's not going to prevent an earth wire coming loose in transit.....

   Like Phil, I wondered about circuit breakers, but I have found out that even these seem to be set to different sensitivities (?), so I'm wondering what the answer is?

   Without boring you all to death, we had our house rewired last year and now it's apparently "meeting strict new guidelines". Unfortunately, the whole system is now SO sensitive, that light bulbs are constantly blowing and shutting down half the house!!! (That would be nice for somebody that perhaps owns a Wersi that runs on Windows,....not!!!). :-(

   Just one final thought......There are dozens of garages out there that issue dodgy MOT's without even looking at the cars in question. Like many things, the PAT testing could possibly be another area that could be open to abuse.....?

   Regards,

   Nicola

   p.s. Phil, can you put something else on youtube to cheer us all up? :-)

   Posted 2 years ago #

9. Jennifer K
   Member

   Oh dear,I seem(yet again)to have started some sort of controversy!
   Bill, you are far more knowledgable on electrics than I,and a qualified electrician,so you are coming from a different angle on this!
   Everything would perhaps be fine,but,as Nicole states,the system is,like so many other contemporary things,wide open to abuse,and any test,unless it is done on a regular basis,is really quite ineffective.
   So,if is is to be done often-who is going to end up paying the higher premiums insurance companies will no doubt demand-we will.
   Clubs and artistes will suffer.
   As I said initially,I am not trying to diminish the need for safety,but it appears that everything in contemporary life is a potential hazard.
   If you take it to its logical conclusion:-breathing is extremely dangerous(but Im not clammering to experience the alternative!!)
   This health and safety thing has gotten grossly out of hand when a warning sign near the edge of a cliff is not enough to make some aware of the danger there-now,it has to be fenced off!
   A friend of mine,seeing a very large hole in the road developing outside his house,went along to the local builders and bought a bag of tarmac`.
   Being the good citizen he is,he went out and filled in this hole,and compressed the tarmac,making a wonderful,professional job.
   Two days later,he got a letter from the local council,telling him that he had broke the law,and demanding that he immediately remove the tarmac.`
   He went outside and did this(no mention was made in the letter the consequences of a cyclist going over the handlebars if he fell foul of this large and ever deepening depression!)
   Later on,that day,two men from the council arrived,set up a tent cones,traffic lights etc(a cuppa was the first order of the assignment?!) and after about three hours,had filled it in and it looked exactly as it did when my friend had done it!
   Now,whats hapened to community spirit-lost in this quagmire of health and efficiency,claim metality fever-we know that had some one run over the repair,done by my friend,and sued the council(eggedon by unscrupulous solicitors)there would be trouble-but itsreally gone to ludicrous lengths.
   This current(like the pun?)PAT testing is yet another part of the monster that is slowly strangling all endeavour-its alreadyput paid` to many innocent pleasures that our parents enjoyed,with all the dangers that were and have always been around.
   Now that is sure to provoke some response!
   Jennifer Kersey.

   Posted 2 years ago #

10. RMepstead
    Member

    Ok Jennifer - here's a response...why do some of your phrases come up in a different type style?
    Rog

    Posted 2 years ago #

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