OrganFax Community » Electronic Instruments
Is it an Organ or is it a Keyboard
(11 posts)-
Posted 2 years ago #
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An interesting question! I would love to see some good answers, I'll add another instrument into it though. A Tyros with a lower manual and pedals... organ or keyboard?
What exactly makes an organ an organ?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Very interesting.
Traditionally an organ is an instrument made up of two keyboards or more and a pedal board, all of which are enclosed by a cabinet. All of these keyboards are powered by one source and are turned on by one switch. The controls for all these keyboards are located together on the console.Many churches and chapels have organs, which only have one keyboard. One would ask why is it an organ and not a keyboard?
I guess the answer to your original question would be, it’s two keyboards and a pedal board placed in an organ configuration. If you took it apart you would still be able to turn each of the keyboards on separately.
What does everyone else think?
Regards
Phil.
Posted 2 years ago # -
VERY Interesting. One of my 'pet' subjects.
At the risk of getting shot down in flames, I'm going to stick my neck out and say - organ. I say this in the vain hope that organ manufacturers will perhaps buck their ideas up somewhat, and start producing organs in the future that have all the capabilities that modern keyboards have.
Like many of you on this site, I am, and always will be, a keen organ enthusiast. However, as the years have gone by, I have become increasingly disappointed by the omission of all the "goodies" on modern organs (like 16-track recording with extensive editing features, sampling facilities, multi- pads, extensive voice editing etc etc.) Just because we choose to play organ, why can't we have all the "extras" too?
While I have midi add-ons to my EL90 with expanders etc which gets round the problem, and I am very happy with the result, it would be fair to say that most people would prefer NOT to have their homes cluttered up with extra cables, amps and so forth.
Another thing, while I'm on my soapbox :- How do all organ manufactuers justify the huge difference in price between organ and keyboard? I know there is obviously the cabinet, amp and quality speakers to be taken into consideration, and assembly etc, but does that really mean that the organs should cost SO much more, when many of the good features appear to be missing?
Many years ago, I questioned a Yamaha professional as to why the keyboards have so much more to offer, only to be told that 'Yamaha organs' and 'Yamaha keyboards' were two seperate companies, and don't really consult with each other (!?!). It's not just Yamaha that appear to be guilty of this, it does seem to be apparent with other manufacturers also.
I make no secret of the fact I absolutely adore the Roland Atelier organs, and had thought I would probably own one in the future. Sadly, I now think this will be unlikely as I am rapidly finding out I have more scope with a Roland Fantom expander. I'm finding it very frustrating to come across brilliant features on an expander that I feel should be included in the organ!! :-(
I know I may be a typecast "miserable Scot", but it's not about the money, it's about getting a modern, up to date, set-up in an ORGAN configuration that suits my needs. I may be picky, but I'm sure there are many other organ enthusiasts that feel the same way, and I think many will be going down the Abacus/Tyros route in order to get what they want. It's my opinion that organ manufacturers need to take notice of the escalating keyboard sales, and think on, as it would be sad to see the demise of the traditional organ in the future.
Regards,
Nicola
IPosted 2 years ago # -
I agree with Nicola - it doesn't seem fair that keyboards have features missing on organs. I love my AT900, but I wouldn't say it's perfect and it does annoy me that when my brother (Michael Wooldridge) demonstrated the Tyros3 he was loaned last month I found there are things on it which I wish were on the Atelier - and look at the difference in price between the two! Would I want the Tyros instead of the Atelier? No, absolutely not - but nor do I want the unsightly inconvenience of connecting the 2 instruments together to get the best of both worlds (not to mention the cost). I don't want a keyboard stuck on top of or next to the Atelier as it would spoil the appearance, I want an organ which looks great, sounds great and also has all the useful features available on cheaper instruments. Organ manufacturers need to add the features available on keyboards if they want to keep seeling instruments to people like me - if I can't have an organ that does everything and therefore need a less attractive looking set-up to achieve what I want, I may as well buy something the like the 2 manual and pedals Tyros set-up already available!
DavidPosted 2 years ago # -
Yeah, that last sentence sums things up pretty well David. Having heard snippets of Michael at the "Baby" Atelier, and the standard he achieved with that, the mind boggles with what he will achieve with the Tyros. :-)
I can't help thinking that it would be nice if, for instance, you could order the bare console in whichever choice of colour/finish/size that suits, and then choose which type of sounds you wish(as in : expansion boards), which features (as in : sequencers, etc. etc). I could go on...... I do think it would make sense, as each and everyone of us could then pick and choose what suits US best as individuals, not what the organ manufactures think suits us. I believe Wersi do this to a certain degree, by letting you choose your own boards ( I think?). If this is true, then Good on them! This method of buying "add ons" as and when you can afford it might appeal to the younger generation too.
I realise I'm deluding myself if I think this way of producing organs is going to happen anytime in the near future. It's a pity though, as I think it would sort out many peoples grievances. On the other hand, maybe others would disagree with my sentiments, and think it would take the "magic" of the "mighty organ" away.
Aye....we're a fickle lot...and quite rightly so, since we are parting with our hard-earned cash.
Regards,
NicPosted 2 years ago # -
The trouble with the degree of customisation you're talking about Nicola is that it would probably both increase the price (more manual input rather than automated production) and make it much harder to know what you'd get when looking for a used instrument. Now I'm sure a canny Scot like yourself would be the first to moan when the dealer valuing your P/Ex instrument tells you it would have been worth £x if you'd ordered the popular finish/sounds etc but the variant you've created is worth only 50% of £x!
Regards,
DavidPosted 2 years ago # -
Ha! Very true David, but could you really see me parting with my beloved current mish-mash of instruments? :-)
Anyway, I reckon I have the "getting everything we want" sussed.....
Check out Russ (Maseratimoose) on the T.O.I.A.B thread. He has 6 organs in his livingroom. Now THAT is the business! Spoilt for choice. :-D Wish I had the room!
Regards,
Nicp.s. nice to see your brain is in business deal mode (he he!) ;-)
Posted 2 years ago # -
Yeah six organs in here but i forgot to mention the ropes to swing from to get from one end of the room to the other!!! I have to set of to draw the curtains about and hour before it gets dark in order to fight my way through!. The Helios has those wonderful Klaus sounds, the gulbransen Palace a tone to die for, The Kawai dx900 some super old school tab instruments, Eminent 2000 Grand Theatre that marvelous string section, The Wersi Beta DX400 and huge wealth of sounds once you've plugged the tape player in and loaded on of the ten or so cassettes and the Orla GT3000 incredible midi connectivity for the fantom with TTT toiab sounds but conversely the rhythm units (knocker boxes as Dr Arnold Loxam calls them) are pretty poor and probably unbearable on 3 or 4 of them. The piano sounds unrecognisable on a similar number. The KN6500 has great sounds but someone forgot to bolt the other keyboard and pedalboard on before selling them. I doubt any perfect organ has ever been made as each manufacturer has it's own area of specialisation.
Consequently the answer is get collect them over the years and part with nothing or with a couple of hundred quid and a friend with a van get on ebay and buy an instant collection. I'd love to add a U90, an EL90 and others but even I have to accept that there's a fine line between a healthy interest and a life consuming obsession- though I suspect friends and family are convinced I crossed that line quite sometime ago. A PSRx000 and a midi controller keyboard along with a Roland pk5 Pedalboard on a bespoke frame works well though not very pretty- but the wersi Beta would take some beating in the ugly stakes and that was meant to have been "designed" to look like that.
The moral of the story is we don't need choice- we just the one WE want.
Whatever you play, enough practice can make the simplest organ sound good- although my first- a Welson New Festival was never going to be easy to get to sound accomplished on. so that did have to go and the Lowrey Citation Theatre was a huge mistake parting with.
If you've read any of the toiab threads then Orla is the one for me now.
Ramblings over- I'm off to fire up one of the boys for an hours relaxation..... Ummmm which one???
Regards to you all,
Russ.Posted 2 years ago # -
Ha Ha! I like your style Russ, especially the bit about the ropes - I could do with a couple of those myself too at times. Yep, you will never be bored with so many to choose from. It is a fine line we tread and I'm starting to question myself after having spent an hour perusing the Rolandclan forum for answers re the Fantom files. I decided enough was enough :-( I was bordering on obsession..... speaking of which, I've just looked at your list again and noticed the Wersi Beta DX400....sorry off topic here, but did you try the Fantom with that? I'm only curious for Wayne's sake over in the toiab thread...he was having problems, but I've kind of lost track on who all has what instruments as there are now so many of us.
p.s. I don't think you need me to tell you to stick with the Orla & Fantom :-)
Regards,
Nicola
Posted 2 years ago #
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