With Penny Weedon's articles in mind and the jottings from The New Forest Organ Society posted on the News Page today, we welcome your thoughts and views.
Do you agree with the committee of the New Forest Society? Do you think that organist's should be doing more to aid the future of the business? Do you think there are more things that clubs can do to help preserve the future?
Interesting topic, please post your thoughts...
When people go to any other concert, ANY form of concert be it classical, orchestral, popular, pop concert etc etc, the artistes are not dictated to, so why should we, as organists, be told what we are allowed or not allowed to play?
There has always been a variety in the organists around the UK which is what makes it interesting. Start slapping on restrictions and you just might be starting to keep people away.
Whilst this policy seems to work at The New Forest Organ Society, it will be a very sad day when, as artistes, we can no longer play what we enjoy playing or what we want to play because one or two people in the audience have a moan from time to time. We can't please everyone all of the time! Whilst we do try to please our audiences, we accept that we won't always. Maybe the organ clubs and committees need to realise this? If you loose the variety, in my opinion, it's going to die off a LOT faster.
Hi OrganFax forum readers,
As a performer that has been "On The Road" since the early 80's and involved with the organ and keyboard world since the mid-70's, it is with great interest that I read the recent articles by Penny and latest addition from Sandra at the New Forest Organ Society. Following on from Cameron's comments I thought, unusually for me, I'd put finger to QWERTY keyboard and add my bit.
I write as both a performer, promoter of shows and since last year the organiser of local keyboard concerts. I'm pleased to say we have a great set up and a growing monthly audience at our shows which amazingly have been running now for 40 years in the area. I can see there are arguments for and against any changes in concert format and that change isn't always welcomed by all. However, I (and judging from the response I receive at my own shows) and a greater number of audiences, seem to believe, if we are to move forward and attract and keep a constant stream of new blood needed to sustain our type of entertainment. (and lets not forget that’s the name of the game) We should embrace and encompass any new form of technology which fits within our keyboard entertainment remit. Using any such advance to simply enhance what we already provide. Be it the use of cameras and screens or with mood lighting changes and effects.
When it comes to attracting and keeping new blood, the long standing amongst us must remember we are competing for people's leisure time in a world of Live Theatre, Home Cinema/HD TV, Computer Technology and of course Digital Sound. A potential concertgoer can watch and listen to a full Symphony Orchestra, Big Band or Vocalist in Surround Sound and with cameras following every bit of the action in their own home. Indeed, what better than to listen and watch the traditional New Year's Day Concert from Vienna, featuring a full orchestra and a wonderful dance company? There we see and hear the Orchestra, then watch the Dancers as they interpret many of the pieces with pictures that sweep us off to include views of the City, River and beautiful surroundings. Music is aural, but the effect it has should also about painting pictures in the mind, creating colours and moods. Lighting and Graphics can bring so much more to the artist’s pallet. If we have a hope, we need to raise the bar as it is no longer acceptable to put an instrument on a stage in a poorly lit venue and then expect the performer to shine and encourage people back.
So, as far as use of the screens is concerned at keyboard shows, why not try and bring in an all round use of them to enhance the “Show”. At a live musical concert these days, be it keyboard, orchestral or vocal, as an extension, and where possible the use of a screen can maximise the appeal to both types of person in the audience. The views can suit the enthusiast who wants to see the button pushes and the person wishing to be entertained by an all round “show”. The technology exists to bring so much more than a fixed perspective view of the performer. Not that there’s any thing wrong with that. Mind you, if some European distributors had their way, we might not even see much happening there as keyboards become more aimed at home automated performance and drive a wedge between live performance and playing for fun. Oops, slipped off the track there, sorry.
Having been involved now in providing the "Big Screen" coverage at many of the UK's major keyboard events and festivals, over the passed few years, I can with some authority add that without exception my performer colleagues revel in the use of such technology, indeed most would agree that the use of it draws the audience further into a programmed piece with the inclusion of relevant graphics, movie clips etc. Further, as I'm privileged enough to have worked with some of the finest UK and International artistes, I’m delighted to say many of the more forward thinking and iconic established ones come to me with their ideas on what they'd like to see and interact with on the screen during their performances.
Whilst I will be the first to agree you'll never please everyone, it’s the majority we should aim to please both on and off the stage. This includes musically, visually and sensually. Each artiste should be an individual, booked on their performing merits and reputation for pleasing and entertaining an audience. The programme content should reflect their own musical and artistic approach. You wouldn’t have engaged Glen Miller and told him not to play Moonlight Serenade as “we’ve heard that before”, or Shirley Bassey and asked her not to sing Big Spender. If you don’t like their style, material and approach you simply don’t go to their shows or engage them.
To end: Perhaps a suitable analogy could be made? If new ideas weren't taken on-board we'd all still be listening to just pipe organs, looking at the organist’s back, watching silent movies and travelling to concerts by horse, hackney carriage and steam train. It’s still early days in this area, but like Sunday shopping, it’ll never catch on.
Unaware of any criticisms at my show there, I look forward to my next visit to the New Forest this year. I had a great night last time with screen effects, and loved the response from the audience on the night and numerous kind comments after the show! ;-)
I’ll watch this thread with a keen eye.
Till next time,
D.T.
I fully agree DT!!
I have also been involved in concert organisation (theatre organs) for the last 10 years, and it seems that if an organist can manage to cover a bit of everything from light classics to 'Roll out the Barrel' you send people home pleased!
We have coach parties come to visit our own cinema and organ and we stick to the well known favourites. These people are not organ fans, they are members of the general public that probably haven't heard an organ in any form for 40+ years except in Church! They go away with a smile on their faces and some have even come to our guest organist concerts at other venues.
We need to try to appeal to everyone, which includes people that aren't organ fans, and we're not going to do that by putting restrictions on what organists play.
We have had some very nice concerts (and nice audience comments) from lesser known players (who have been playing professionally for many years I hastily add) in recent times with different registrations, different approaches and different programmes. We need variety!
Cameron.
Hi David,
As someone who has admired and appreciated your technical input to an organ concert, I have to say I agree with your comments on how ‘visuals’ can add that little extra something to what is often a pretty basic form of presentation that has been ‘de rigueur’ for far too long. I can fully appreciate where the Chairmen & Committee of the NFS are coming from when they make a simple and not unreasonable request that visiting organists do not include Sing-a-longs. What I fail to understand is that if an organist is trying to be that little bit different in his/her use of video and commercial vocal inserts into the show, that the Committee should seek to stop this on the grounds that they have all the lighting effects that they need, and that such forms of presentation are distracting.
Using the Sing-a-Long reference as an example I can remember back in the 40s & 50s when these were popular…but nevertheless boring and a very easy way of cinema organists earning their keep. But every so often there came along organists who were innovative in their approach to the thrice-daily organ interludes. In fact on the Granada Cinema circuit these organists were expected to be ‘Showmen (& women) in their own right. It was nothing to see film extracts / commercial recordings / moving artwork backgrounds / lighting effects and other attention grabbing inserts being skillfully woven into a 12-15 minute slot. When the organist descended back down into the pit, the applause was long and sustained, because he/she had entertained them without any participation on their part except to sit back and enjoy something that was equally as entertaining as the rest of the programme they were about to watch. And I speak from an experienced standpoint as someone who contributed in some way to those interludes.
Recently I had the pleasure of seeing Mark Ireland in concert, and have to say that his use of a single video insert to which he took the audience on a musical journey around the USA, and for a finale played accompaniment to a Harry Belafonte song, were but just two highlights to an already entertaining show. Time taken? No more than 15 minutes in a 90-minute programme. Surely the Members of the NFS are not that intolerant as to suggest this is a distraction that they would rather not be subjected to. They should be lucky to have such a huge Membership in these troubled Organ Club supportive times. Lots of Clubs don’t even have the facilities that they have worked hard to purchase … let alone have volunteers with knowledge of how to operate them and compliment the organist’s performance.
But I wonder if the NFS Committee has thought to even consider the organist’s point of view. Perhaps the organist might not like their lighting effects, and find the choice of colours, lack of, or perhaps the constant changing of them during a number, distracting to the performance they are giving. Lighting effects, if not judicious and complimentary to a given tune, can ruin the whole ambience that the organist has worked hard to present. I’ve attended many an organ concert where ‘our Fred on Lights’ …a rhythmically challenged volunteer has tried in vain to flash the lighting circuits in time to the beat of the music, when in all honesty he should have attended a Strand Electric Lighting Operator Course. Now that IS distraction, though by giving that as an example I am not suggesting that is the case at the NFS. It’s a two-way street!
No, give me an organist anytime, like your goodself, who is savvy enough to grasp modern technology and make good use of it. We both live in an ever-changing world and don’t want to join the dinosaurs.
At the Basildon Keyboard Club we have a philosophy that seams to work well for us.
1) We never book a player unless at least two of the team has seen them in concert, as we attend festivals and actively try to see new players not as difficult as it may seam. If we don’t think a particular concert will go down at our club we do not book the player. That said we try to book players who will provide a different style of concert each month. We would never dictate what should be played, other than our January concert that for the past good few years is based on an evening of music in Vienna style, but that is a special concert and is agreed well in advance.
2) The club is fortunate in having the services of Supreme lighting to provide different lighting each month, a small outlay ensures we have lights that go with the music and are regularly updated. Our lighting man is always prepared to work with the players to ensure the lights compliment the music.
3) The club has its own video equipment, four cameras on stage and one off stage, this is controlled via a video mixing desk and is output to two screens, one each side of the stage. If a player has their own equipment we work together, if they have taken the time and trouble to produce images to go with their music it makes sense to take advantage of their hard work.
We regularly try different ideas, some work some don’t, the important thing is to try.
Over the years I have attended many meetings at the larger festivals where committee members get together to discuss ways of improving clubs. I have often seen people who state they will only book organists, the concert must have marches and theatre organ content or they won’t book the player. Sometimes I wonder if it is the preference of the audience or the booking secretary.
On a personal note I would like to point out that all good music was not written before I was born in 1950, good music is still being written today and has a place in any players concert program.
Finally it should be remembered the audience has come out to see and hear something not available at home, live music. That there can be interaction between the player and audience makes for a spontaneity not available when watching the box, how many times do you chuckle, even laugh out loud, because of something that has happened on stage when watching the box? You would never hear the quip made “off mike” when something is not quite as it should be.
Also clubs are about friendship, meeting other people who enjoy the same things you do, and if the person on stage becomes your friend, even just for an evening and at a distance, it may be the only friend you have until the next concert.
John
Well,well well! Not the sort of responses I expected but good to get some feed back. Not one response has really picked up on my points though. Everyone is keen to say how good THEY are, what they do and how experienced they are, implying that NFOS is not experienced etc. I have said all those things already about us in my article. We have been putting on concerts - 12+ a year - for more than 30 years. Most of them to audiences of 180-200. We do book artistes who will bring the people in, we do put out lots of literature (posters, local free magazines and local papers etc) and we do go all out to try to include new, young talent every year. We are not complaining about our success as a club, we are happy with that and I agree that you can never please everyone!
The point being made was in answer to those who are talking and complaining about the number of clubs closing and is enough being done by the clubs - organists do not seem to come into the 'problem'! The reason the NFOS article was written was to try and encourage both the Clubs and organists to try to work together a little more, a little understanding of why these problems are occurring. Is that so bad? That is why we made some of the points that we had thought about and discussed at our committee meetings. We are concerned. Surely all of us who are involved in the organ world/ciruit should ask ourselves some of these questions? We have some good friends in the many organists on the circuit, most of whom enjoy coming to the New Forest on a regular basis (including the very talented David Thomas, thank you for your comments David) and of course if 1 or 2 along the way do not go down well then we 'move on' as has also been said in responses on the Forum page. One point made on the Forum page we would like to agree with - please everyone remember that just because most audiences are usually 'older' people does not mean that they are 'past it' - they are active, bright intelligent people enjoying a night out with some good MUSIC.
To follow on from the recent comments about what other clubs and organists do I can report that on Sun 3rd April we hosted a charity lunch and concert for 200 at a nearby venue in support of Help for Heroes and raised in excess of £3,300. Ian House played a most wonderful concert after our super lunch and we all had a very happy afternoon.
Then on Fri 8th April we were asked by Roland UK Ltd to host a concert for
Tony Fenelon - which we have done before and were thrilled to do again - and we had a full house at our venue in Milford - another 200 people. An amazing evening of wonderful MUSIC enjoyed by everyone. Next Tuesday 12th, we have our monthly Social Evening when some of our members will play for us and on 26th April, the fabulous and popular Chris Powell is coming to give us our monthly concert. Chris has been to us on many occasions and we always have a full house for him.
One more thing, apart from the comments made on the Forum page, I have received private emails from a few organists and clubs - people who obviously do not wish to be seen in print and I respect that so no names mentioned by me - but all very interesting.
This why our article was headed 'ANOTHER POINT OF VIEW' - we are all entitled to a point of view. So, I think the New Forest Organ Society will carry on the way we are going and just enjoy all the music that comes along each month. Maybe our article has stirred 1 or 2 people into having a think about the future of the organ world but somehow I don't believe so. It has been interesting - thank you!!
Sandra Ebbetts - Chairman - New Forest Organ Society
Hello everyone
The inertia of many clubs arising from the founders occupying their presidential or other positions a little too long could have stifled the necessary input that new generations bring along with a more balanced age membership.
For many younger people the word ‘Organ’ is associated with past technology and outdated music that is probably unlikely to attract the interest of new generations.
As much as I love electronic organs I believe that a more 21st century title encompassing the whole field we all enjoy could be something like ‘Digital Keyboard Club‘.
One thing we all know is that people vote with their feet so the status quo may not be a survival strategy for many clubs.
Omnibus
I would like this Omnibus person to give their name to their idea - why does he/she think that clubs/societies have not thought of this supposed new idea? It has been 'rattling around' for years. Most clubs and their committees in my area know each other pretty well and the idea of updating the name from 'organ club' to something maybe more appealing to younger people has been discussed for many years. Have you thought about it the other way round? By introducing the word 'digital' for instance you could put off a lot of other people? It has been uppermost in committees minds for a very long time and if this the best idea he/she can come up with then that person has not sat on an enthusiastic committee who has thought over this idea for years. All I can say is that those clubs I know that have changed/updated their name are still in the same boat!!!!
Any club with any enthusiasm for the future would welcome new people on their Committee - once again this is part of the problem - finding people that will do the job!!
Sandra
Different things work in different areas, different people, different backgrounds etc etc etc.
Our audiences seem to prefer more light-hearted music and a bit of a singalong at the end, not saying that they all do, but thats just what appears to get good attendances for us. 473 was the final count at Blackpool Opera House last week for Phil Kelsall, who gave us an excellent and varied concert.
I think if we, as organists, try to give as varied programme as possible (WITHOUT restrictions from clubs) we can't go far wrong. I think it is wrong for a club to say don't play this style, don't play that etc. However, if it works for you and the organists you book don't mind, there we go!!
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