http://www.organfax.co.uk/community/ OrganFax Community » Topic: where do we go from here en Thu, 09 Feb 2012 02:51:07 +0000 http://www.organfax.co.uk/community/topic/where-do-we-go-from-here-1/page/6#post-283 Sat, 08 Aug 2009 18:54:20 +0000 Stephen Austin 283@http://www.organfax.co.uk/community/ <p>"I am well aware that players spend many hours programming their instruments to get the most realistic sound possible, and here lies a problem, no spontaneity, you may as well listen to a CD, why pay anything to go out and listen to live music?" says John Jackaman</p> <p>I agree, John, and I am one of the guilty ones who has spent hours trying to get a decent theatre organ sound out of a Technics GA1 (I have been complimented by many an organ society member on the registrations I have achieved), but the spontaneity is difficult to achieve with many a modern organ because of the "menu" system, don't you think?<br /> How wonderful to sit at an older instrument or theatre pipe organ where you can add/subract individual stops as the mood takes you without being given the third degree by the organ as to WHICH trumpet you want.<br /> John (Nunns) and I still have that facility on the GA1 because of the flute tabs, but also because we were shown the "thinking ahead method" of selecting a sound in advance from each sound group before setting the pistons. It works to an extent but not in the same way as on older generation of instruments.<br /> In a way, your comment about setting registrations for each piece is so true, but for someone like myself who plays only a few concerts (about 10) every year and those invitations being by word of mouth rather than advertising, plus the fact that teaching daily is the "bread and butter", I usually find myself following in the wake of one of the "greats" of the circuit, and I feel as if I must make an effort in that field.<br /> Nothing gives me greater playing pleasure than to be able "spontane" when it comes to registrations.<br /> Oh for an Allen GW4.........sigh!</p> <p>Stephen </p> http://www.organfax.co.uk/community/topic/where-do-we-go-from-here-1/page/6#post-282 Sat, 08 Aug 2009 16:38:38 +0000 John Jackaman 282@http://www.organfax.co.uk/community/ <p>If it comes to being odd then it is probably me that is the odd one, being the chairman of a keyboard club with a "growing audience", I know of a couple of other odd ones out there that share my view point but have reasons for not being able to express their point of view.<br /> I am well aware that players spend many hours programming their instruments to get the most realistic sound possible, and here lies a problem, no spontaneity, you may as well listen to a CD, why pay anything to go out and listen to live music?<br /> Richard Bower and Ian Griffin do not have time to create any of the registrations they need when they do their request spots, it is all off the cuff, and this is not one person doing their thing this is two players responding to each other.<br /> There a other players who can and do play off the cuff, and they also play pieces they have spent hours setting up. And that is as it should be, a mix of pre programmed and LIVE music.<br /> This brings me onto another subject, personality, some players get so tied down with creating a "just so" sound they forget to allow their own personality into the music, two players spring to mind who have perfected this, Brett Wales and Tony Stace, very different players, both let their personality show through, there are others but not enough.<br /> Yes Basildon does do themed evenings and our Vienna night is now firmly established in the calendar, it is a lot of work for the player and anyone who spends months setting individual registrations for every piece they are going to play has more time than sense. The Vienna State Orchestra does not change violins after each piece so why do it for an organ concert?<br /> Pub singers do not spend hours rehearsing with the band, ours do, we expect very high standards when we book someone for a special evening, we put in a lot of work to make the evening work and we expect no less off those appearing on stage.<br /> Every player should have their "Party Piece" that makes them stand out, but they should always have fresh music under their belt.<br /> Each year my wife and I will probably attend four festivals, three of those lasting a week, we also have 12 Basildon concerts and will attend concerts at local clubs. We get to hear the same piece played many times and it is always the new stuff that sticks in the mind, if we want to hear the old stuff we probably have it on CD, another reason for constantly updating your program, don’t complain about CD sales if you don’t play new music, no one is going to buy a CD they already have.<br /> Over to you. </p> http://www.organfax.co.uk/community/topic/where-do-we-go-from-here-1/page/5#post-277 Fri, 07 Aug 2009 21:32:57 +0000 NicEL8000 277@http://www.organfax.co.uk/community/ <p>I agree totally that artistes who have identical programmes after 3 or more years is wrong, BUT I don't really see the problem of them playing an identical programme at a neighbouring society the following evening.... maybe I'm odd, but, if at all possible I try to hear the same artiste the following evening. Why do I do this?......usually out of sheer respect for the artiste, and the effort they have made to do their registrations, drum programming, arrangements etc. From a personal point of view, I have learned so much from studying these people and analysing what they are doing, that I would be happy to see and hear their identical programmes 7 nights in a row. Another point is the time it must take many of them to put their programmes together, and the attention to detail is often lost on many people. For instance take the brilliant, sadly missed, late Tony Back... I'm sure many will remember his "Riverdance"? 6 months....6 LONG months he spent putting that piece together, arranging, programming drum patterns, laying down a drum track, fine tuning registrations and since he couldn't get the music he did it by EAR!!! Something his lovely supportive wife Shirley confirmed to me later. Why did he bother to do this? - A: because he was a "musician" , and B: he was a total pro that liked to please his audience. Personnally, witnessing the kind of musicianship from artistes of a similar calibre, is an absolute delight for me and many others, but I do know, to some people it's "just a night of music", they are not in the least bit interested in the technicalities of what the artiste is doing and how much they've slogged their guts out to acheive the end result.<br /> I feel it's a shame that you have to book this way John. I'm sure your doing your level best to get people through the doors as we all are, it's just a pity you have to resort to this to ensure your club survives. I mean to say, its not like people are getting asked to fork out £40 each night are they? Where else are they going to hear musicians of this standard for such a reasonable price?<br /> As for the singer/keyboard thing (and please believe me I do NOT wish to offend anyone, I know there are some very, very GOOD ones out there), BUT, I could probably go to a few local pubs/clubs to hear them.... Like I said earlier, maybe I'm ODD....(replies on a postcard only please)...... </p> http://www.organfax.co.uk/community/topic/where-do-we-go-from-here-1/page/5#post-276 Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:14:50 +0000 RMepstead 276@http://www.organfax.co.uk/community/ <p>Playing keyboard weekly on a radio show is challenging in terms of breadth of material but I've been managing to achieve variety for 18 months now without a break...it's amazing the different material and styles you can get through...<br /> There's plenty to choose from that's for sure whether 40's 50's 60's 70's 80's or even some more recent hits!<br /> And my point is in relation to this topic that perhaps the wider the genre of music and presentation perhaps the wider the appeal...<br /> Roger M<br /> <a href="http://www.keyboardplayerextraordinaire.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.keyboardplayerextraordinaire.com</a> </p> http://www.organfax.co.uk/community/topic/where-do-we-go-from-here-1/page/5#post-275 Fri, 07 Aug 2009 10:19:42 +0000 Michael Wooldridge 275@http://www.organfax.co.uk/community/ <p>Hi, I'm not a great one for discussion forums but thought I must drop in my thoughts after I read the comments from John and Stephen regarding players who don't change their programmes enough. I agree this can be a problem but it is worth bearing in mind that for the players who use modern instruments to the very full, making special arrangements these days with perhaps hundreds of sound combinations and a day or two of rhythm sequencing per 5 minute item, they can't create dozens of fresh ones at the drop of a hat. </p> <p>With regard to players who use much the same programme at different societies, there is a logical train of thought that each club is entitled to hear all of the player's favourite and best material and, indeed, it is common in all theatre to go to see a particular star because you like hearing all of their known material. Can you imagine the disappointment of going to see Shirley Bassey without hearing Hey Big Spender or The Glenn Miller Orchestra without Moonlight Serenade. </p> <p>That said, I do agree that the situation Stephen describes of an organist going back to the same venue some three years on and their playing exactly the same repertoire is inexcusable and it is surprising that they have not musically grown in that period. I would expect a few repeats of their favourite items but not the whole show full.</p> <p>In my own case, I am now in my 30th year of playing organ concerts and thoroughly enjoy playing a very, very wide range of music in a wide range of styles. Whilst my choices and overall style may not be to everyone's taste, as perhaps exemplified by the fact that neither Stephen nor John have ever booked me (!) I could probably produce about 6 or 7 completely different, entertaining and enjoyable programmes from repertoire at a few moments notice and more with some warning. Years ago I used to play at a concert venue around about every 6 weeks and used to ensure that 90% of the material I played was fresh to them, or at very least hadn't been played for over a twelve month period.</p> <p>I know John that you have your New Year's Day concerts, and this type of thing can be a good stimulation for events. Over the years I have performed many themed events where the music has mostly linked in. These have included French nights for the beaujolais nouveau, Italian nights, nights themed to particular years, I've done from about 1920 through to about 1984 so far I think, to tie in with anniversaries of theatres, clubs, people, request evenings where the audience choose all of the music and many many more. I do think that if asking a player to provide this type of evening, there must be an acceptance that it cannot all be sequenced, as the time for a one off would not relate to the fee, but most decent players would nonetheless give a good account of themselves and the audience would be guaranteed something different. I also see no harm in asking the player if they will have a fresh programme before making a return booking which, if nothing else, would help to focus them on the idea that they will need one!</p> <p>It is the booking secretaries who hold the power in this situation so it is they who can force new material from those who don't produce it, or just not book the people who don't work hard enough at their business so perhaps do not deserve the work. </p> http://www.organfax.co.uk/community/topic/where-do-we-go-from-here-1/page/5#post-274 Fri, 07 Aug 2009 07:58:14 +0000 Stephen Austin 274@http://www.organfax.co.uk/community/ <p>" very few players have enough material to play two completely different programs, local clubs share the audience who will only go to one of the concerts.".............says John Jackaman</p> <p>Yes - don't we know it !! It disappointed the Blackpool Keyboard Club to hear a well-known performer play EXACTLY the same programme as said person had played 3 years ago.....in the same order.....and with the same "patter", jokes and all. This was confirmed by some of our members that had heard said performer in the interim at a another club, not so far from us.</p> <p>Not on!!! </p> http://www.organfax.co.uk/community/topic/where-do-we-go-from-here-1/page/5#post-273 Thu, 06 Aug 2009 22:01:09 +0000 John Jackaman 273@http://www.organfax.co.uk/community/ <p>At Basildon we do put in the contract that artistes are restricted to not playing at a local club in the two months prior to their booking at our club, very good reason for this, very few players have enough material to play two completely different programs, local clubs share the audience who will only go to one of the concerts.<br /> We got hit a number of times and can't afford the risk of making a loss at any concert. We do try to work round other clubs ensuring we do not book players who have played in the past year at a local club.<br /> There are a number of players who are finding periods between bookings at Basildon are extending, this is to give them time to update their program.<br /> We do book concerts featuring singers and as we are a keyboard club we also welcome keyboards, with or without pedals. </p> http://www.organfax.co.uk/community/topic/where-do-we-go-from-here-1/page/5#post-271 Wed, 05 Aug 2009 15:08:49 +0000 RMepstead 271@http://www.organfax.co.uk/community/ <p>Sounds logical Nick...Do societies ever consider accepting artists playing keyboards and with singers too rather than just organ players, I wonder...?<br /> Roger M<br /> <a href="http://www.thethreetones.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.thethreetones.com</a> </p> http://www.organfax.co.uk/community/topic/where-do-we-go-from-here-1/page/5#post-262 Mon, 03 Aug 2009 21:27:08 +0000 NicEL8000 262@http://www.organfax.co.uk/community/ <p>Hi David,</p> <p>Glad to hear you're enjoying your 900c. Like you, I like playing modern through to classical with a leaning towards orchestral. I also, like you, have a couple of minor "niggles" with it, but before I launch into one of my epistles on my current "fave" organ ,I've just remembered that this site was "Where do we go from here?". While I'm sure that Chris is thrilled that we are both smitten with the new Atelier, I'm not sure everybody else wants to listen to me droning on about how marvellous I think it is, ha ha! So, if it's ok with you David, I'll swap over to the 'New Here' site and chat to you there. (That way I won't bore or irritate anyone that want's to stick to the topic). </p> <p>Speaking of which...... I heard some nasty little rumours that some societies won't book artistes if they are playing at a nearby society in the same week, OR..... have even gone so far as to FORBID artistes to play within say, a 50 mile radius in the same week as their own societyies concert! Is this TRUE????!!!!!!!<br /> I DO hope NOT!!!<br /> If so, can someone please explain WHY???? Things are bad enough without DISCOURAGING players too! Why can't clubs work together?<br /> Up here in Fife, we work very closely with our neighbouring society in Stirling (approx 30 miles away). We operate on a wednesday, Stirling on a thursday. Some of the Stirling crowd come to us....and vice versa. Dumfries also sometimes book along with us too if it's convenient. They operate on a monday. This means the artistes often get a mini scottish "tour". This seems to work in everyones' favour. There is NO competition or "cliqueishness" (is that a word?) between the clubs, we only try to HELP EACH OTHER and make things better for the poor souls who have to have a LONG DRIVE up here! Also, I might add that we try to bend over backwards to make the organists and any new members or visitors WELCOME!!!! I believe many societies also operate on this basis of course, but lets face it, shouldn't ALL societies be doing this?...........</p> <p>Me and my big mouth. I've probably inadvertantly offended someone......but at least there might be a reaction to my ramblings............. </p> http://www.organfax.co.uk/community/topic/where-do-we-go-from-here-1/page/5#post-259 Sun, 02 Aug 2009 20:14:07 +0000 wooly115 259@http://www.organfax.co.uk/community/ <p>Hi Nicola,<br /> I love it - BOASTING about only using the pre-set registrations :-) Ok, I admit that most of us (certainly including me) only really scratch the surface of what the instruments can do, but imagine all that wasted potential lurking unused is such a shame. The AT90 was a great instrument (and still is, but it's not as easy to play as the later models). Having owned numerous Yamaha and Technics models over the years (all of which I liked), I switched to Roland for a change - I think most makes have certain sounds or functionality that's better or easier than other makes, so I'm not sure I'd say anything is better at everything. I've progressed from an AT30, added the R upgrade, then splashed out on the AT80S and upgraded that to an SL and now have the 900C. The AT80SL was a really nice instrument and is a brilliant used buy, but, as ever, the newer model is better. After 7 months, I'm sure I've found a reasonable amount of its functions and I love the sound and the fact you can play it "on the hoof". Is it perfect? No. I don't like the fact the sustain on/off or length isn't on the fascia, I don't like the fact that the Roland presets assume you want easy play features (on a £20K organ??) and it assumes you want to play an octave higher than I normally do - but I can forgive it some deficiencies as (the vast majority of) the sounds are excellent and there's a huge range to choose from (which is good for me as I like to play very modern pieces as well as classical pieces and everything in between). I think the C is also more aesthetically and suits me better as I live in a modern house.<br /> I'm not sure where you're based, but I like to go to Michael's concerts when I can - which sadly is all too rarely - so maybe we can discuss further then.<br /> Regards,<br /> David </p>